Pricing Consulting Services: A Deep Dive

How does a consultant transition from building digital products to establishing a specialized operations consulting firm, growing it to a 15-person team without ever running a single advertisement? Garrett Delph, Founder and CEO of Clarity Ops, shares his journey into the complex world of operational efficiency, where he helps fast-growth companies ($15M+ revenue, 75-100+ employees) tackle waste, inefficiency, and bloat to reorganize for scale and growth.

Garrett reveals the foundational belief that “you can only build as high as you dig deep,” using a powerful skyscraper analogy to emphasize the critical importance of a solid operational engine for any business aiming to truly win. He explains, “Everything in a business is made up of people, process, and performance… it’s all ops.” Today, Garrett details his path, from early mistakes with client selection to developing robust qualification processes and multi-tiered pricing models, all while maintaining a commitment to authentic, value-driven client engagement.

In this episode you will learn:

• Garrett’s transition from building digital products to specializing in operational consulting.

• His unique referral strategy of asking for three specific referrals to generate initial business without advertising.

• The evolution of his ideal client profile and the painful lessons from working with the ‘wrong’ customers early on.

• Clarity Ops’ three-tiered pricing strategy.

• The critical role of pre-qualification.

• His rationale for niching by revenue ($15M+) and employee count (75+) and overcoming the initial fear of niching too narrowly.

• The thinking behind building a 15-person in-house team based on demand and revenue.

• Why he believes most businesses operate in chaos and how operational excellence is the true foundation for sustainable scale.

• The ongoing challenge of refining messaging and attracting the ideal client, even with a successful firm.

Welcome to the Consulting Success podcast. I’m your host Michael Zipursky, and in this podcast, we’re going to dive deep into the world of elite consultants where you’re going to learn the strategies, tactics and mindset to grow a highly profitable and successful consulting business.

Before we dive into today’s episode. Are you ready to grow and take your consulting business to the next level? Many of the clients that we work with started as podcast listeners just like you, and a consistent theme they have shared with us is that they wished they had reached out sooner about our Clarity Coaching Program rather than waiting for that perfect time. If you’re interested in learning more about how we help consultants just like you, we’re offering a free, no pressure growth session call. On this call, we’re going to dive deep into your goals, challenges and situation and outline a plan that is tailor made just for you. We will also help you identify where you may be making costly and time consuming mistakes to ensure you’re benefiting from the proven methods and strategies to grow your consulting business. 

So don’t wait years to find clarity. If you’re committed and serious about reaching a new level of success in your consulting business, go ahead and schedule your free growth session. Get in touch today. Just visit Consulting Success – Grow to book your free call today.

Garrett Delph, founder of Clarity Ops, leverages 25+ years of experience building scalable worldwide businesses and managing international teams. He’s passionate about architecting planned-for operational results—dependable and repeatable—to decrease OpX, maximize efficiencies, foster unity, and drive high-margin growth. At Clarity Ops, Delph applies his innovative ‘people, process, performance’ framework and Process MAPS^TM system (Maintaining Alliance with Priorities and Strategy) to guide businesses toward significant scaling, all within a people-first environment where teams thrive.

Connect with Garrett Delph

Discover more about Clarity Ops

Hey Garrett, welcome.

Hey Michael, good to see you.

Yeah, great to have you on. So your company is called Clarity Ops. Take a moment and just share a little bit more about, you know, who do you help? What is the work that you do?

Yeah, I, I’d be happy to. Thanks. Clarity Ops is a boutique consulting firm. It is really niched and laser-sharp focused on, specifically, operations. And we do kind of a few things that are bespoke to our process. We focus on waste, inefficiency, and bloat with a primary, you know, a few primary objectives: to reorganize for scale and growth. That leads to typically increased gross margins, which then afford the business to take, you know, their growth initiatives to market in a must- a more faster, effective way. So, it’s sort of this trifecta of a trifecta.

[01:19] – How to Identify and Target Fast-Growth Companies

You talk about on, on your website that, and you kind of alluded to it here as well, that, your ideal clients are companies that are experiencing kind of fast-paced growth, right, where obviously there’s a lot of things going on, processes are being broken. As you said, there’s a lot of waste and inefficiency. So you, you, you help them tighten up their processes, which makes, you know, a lot of sense to me. But I’d love to hear, how do you identify and, and target those companies? Because if somebody, you know, if your targeting was just based on industry, right, there’s lots of ways to, to just use that. And whether it’s LinkedIn Sales Navigator, Apollo, other, you know, list services, you can, you can filter for, you know, what is their revenue, what is their geographic location, what industry are they in, job title. But I’ve never seen a clear filter, I mean, in, to select, yeah, fast growth. So, I know you can look at the head count, you know, if his head count is changing or number of, right, employees, said another way. But how do you all, in your company think about identifying the ideal client? What, what is the signal that you use to, to know who to kind of target and, and go after?

Great question. And I think if, if there were a magic bullet, it would have been invented, you know. So, I’m only a few years into Clarity Ops, and I have to be honest, I thought, based on my track record of building, business prior to getting into the consulting domain, I thought I had it actually figured out. I thought that, you know, creating a sales pipeline and, or lead pipeline and then, you know, converting to sales, and learning everything I’ve learned would be pretty easy. It turns out it’s been much more difficult than I anticipated. And I, and I think primarily that’s because, the problems that Clarity Ops solves are typically very complex, and even the businesses don’t understand the root to the problems.

And so, you know, I do have some thresholds that we- you know, are sort of a barrier. We won’t go below in terms of revenue thresholds. So typically, it’s around 15 million. And, typically around 75 to 100 is the barrier to entry in terms of employment count. So, those are a couple of signals we look for. The other thing I found to be really effective is in our content, just being razor-sharp clear about the problems we solve for. And for businesses that don’t know their problems, that is, sometimes more difficult for them to hook in. But for businesses that do know their problems, it becomes very easy, and that opens up the door because we’re speaking the same language.

One other thing I’d say is, that increasingly is becoming, a door opener is just, the network and the word of mouth and the proof of solution for our customers, and then people talk, you know. And, that increasingly really becomes the best way to work with new customers. I think that will be the better road in the future.

[04:39] – Landing First Clients Without Advertising

Yeah, so let’s, let’s hit, kind of rewind on that tape for a moment. And you, you launch this business. I know you’ve, you’ve had previous success as an entrepreneur building a business, but not a consulting business, and not focusing specifically on operations from my understanding. So, when you decided to launch this business, how did you get your first client? You know, what were you—did you have that same level of kind of laser-sharp, kind of precision or, or narrow focus of who the ideal client was in terms of 15 million plus, 75 plus employees? Just walk us through what did that look like to get the first maybe client or two or three coming in the door?

Yeah, it was, well, I want to be clear, I have never advertised. So, I decided 15 years ago that authentic content that is well-aligned to the problems that you’re solving and the customer that you’re serving, has been the best approach, and I still believe that. So, don’t advertise. In terms of, you know, taking Clarity Ops to market, my approach was I went to my entire network and said, “I have a new business. This is what we do. Do you know anybody that’s facing these challenges and problems, and could you refer three people to me?”

Why did you ask for three people?

[06:08] – Referral Strategy That Opens Doors

Because it’s a concrete number, and it’s objective. I’ll just say one other thing: it’s not 10. Ten’s too many. One—one is you strike out immediately if they can’t think of one. So, three allows them at least to get you one, and perhaps up to five. So, anyways, but please, play devil’s advocate.

No, no, that, that’s great. I appreciate you jumping in on that. And I was going to say, so I’ll kind of come at it from a different angle because I wanted to explore this and, and make this as valuable, and tactical for all of our listeners and viewers. But that number, right? Some people would feel uncomfortable, like, “Oh, I’m asking for too much.” And you, strike me as the kind of person who does, you know, really would dislike, overly promotional, salesy, you know, pressure sales tactics. Like, I don’t get that vibe from you at all. And I know that we’ve, we’ve just met, so I could be completely off the mark on that. But I’m wondering, you know, the, so the thought that you just, or your explanation of three in terms of this kind of strategic positioning of that, almost like an anchoring type of approach from a pricing perspective. But did you, why, like, do you just feel comfortable in saying, “Yeah, I need, like, give me—do you know three people?” Was that just a natural thing for you to ask, or have you learned that that has worked well for you? And then what was the actual result of it?

The honest answer is I learned that from a coach that I hired. And, you know, we were just going through go-to-market strategies. And, I was, you know, one of the topics was, “What is the best strategy for generating leads?” And, that was his advice to me, and it’s, at immediate hear, it sounded right. And it turns out it’s been great. It’s been great. And I do agree with you, and I think increasingly as we move into Gen Z, the salesy stuff at least I’ll speak for myself, forget about Gen Z. I just-

Wait, you’re not in Gen Z, Garrett?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I paint my beard gray. But, yeah, you know my preference is to be honest.

And what’s the result been? So, if you think about for every, you know, I don’t know if you know how many or remember how many people you reached out to initially. Was it 20, 50, 100? But whatever that number was, what percentage of them do you think actually said, “Yeah, here’s one person, two people, three people. I don’t know anybody.” How would you kind of break that down?

I haven’t actually calculated the data, but I’d say the average is one. You know, and especially, you know, because, a revenue threshold of 15 million isn’t, you know, I think anything above 3 million, you’re in the top two percentile. So, it’s extremely niche.

Did you bring that level of specificity and kind of request of, “I’m looking for, you know, we’re, we’re going to help companies that are 50 million and above, 75 employees and above?” Did you put that into your initial message?

[09:14] – Lessons From Working With the Wrong Clients

Great question. No, I didn’t. And, I paid the price dearly because I brought on the wrong customers. So, the first seven months, engaged a few of the wrong customers and, and learned my lesson, which is, which is okay. And I knew it. I knew it, having just built business, but, my mistake is I actually didn’t apply it to the customers who were me.

Yeah. Do you think that was a mistake? Like, in hindsight, would it have been the right move for you to be that specific in the initial message? Or do you think that actually going a little bit broader and then having more conversations, working maybe with the wrong people, that ultimately served you? Or do you think if you were more specific, that actually would have just helped you kind of accelerate and see better results faster?

Wow. That’s a great question, Michael. That’s a really great question. I, you know, I think my inclination is to say I would have been better off, I would have been better off setting the boundaries out of the gate. And the reason I say that is, you know, I wasn’t an MBA with a few years of Deloitte under my belt or 10 years of Deloitte under my belt. You know, I wasn’t coming in as a consultant. I actually was coming in as a guy who’s been in the trenches. I have the battle scars. I have the proof of concepts, and I have the wins to prove that I know what I’m doing. And I didn’t need a ramp-up. You know, I, I didn’t need to, to cut my teeth, if you will. And if I did, I think that probably would have been good because I, you know, could have made some mistakes, at a lower threshold.

[11:12] – Why Niching Down Accelerates Consulting Success

Did you have any concern or, or hesitation about narrowing in so quickly? So, I recognize you didn’t do it right away in those initial messages, but it sounds like pretty quickly you decided, “Hey, I need to draw some boundaries in terms of what I want to, to focus on and target in the work that we’re all doing.” Was there anything in your mind going, “No, no. Like, let’s, we need to, not 15 million. If we say 15 million, somebody at 10 million, you know, might not reach out to us, and we could help them?” Or, like, was there any of that going on in your mind of concern of being too narrow?

You know, the only thing that was, and I think still is a concern for me sometimes, is, I’m always, you know, we’ve heard the old adage, “The riches are in the niches.” And I’ve always, part of me has always been afraid of niching because it’s so narrow, you know. But I just continued to push in there and pursue it because, at my belly, I think it’s right. And, and I think that’s where the solutions are too, you know. They, they really are in the micro and in the details. And, and then you get to blossom those into the macro.

Yeah, I mean, we’ve done a lot of studies and surveys at Consulting Success, you know, with hundreds, sometimes thousands of people participating in them. And what I consistently see through those, as well as just through conversations and, you know, working with hundreds of clients, is that you can find maybe like 1% or 2% of the time that somebody will be very successful in consulting or build a firm or solo, by being broad. But like 90% plus of the time, the real success comes, or you can see it when people have narrowed in, they’ve niched down, niched down, depending on how you pronounce the word. So I think that what you’re describing is very true. It’s still very hard for people early on because our minds are, we’re kind of like programmed to think about loss aversion and, you know, what may I lose if I narrow in too much.

And then the other mistake that I see people making, and I’m wondering if this resonates with you as well, is when people look at success, they often look at larger, more established companies. So, you talked about, like Deloitte, right? You go to Deloitte, or you go to McKinsey, or L.E.K., or, you know, any of these large consulting firms, their website will show like 25 capabilities, and their messaging will say that they transform the world with innovative solutions. Like, there’s these big promises that feels like it could be for anyone in any industry, anywhere around the world, right? People look and go like, “Oh, this is what I should be doing.” But what they always miss is that that’s not how these firms started out. Like, you know, to get to that first, you know, million dollars, three million, five million, even 10 million, they generally were, had like a really clear focus, and only after getting to those points did they start to branch out and add more capabilities and say that they can do everything. Does that resonate with you? Is that kind of what you’ve experienced as well?

That totally resonates with me. 100%. As a matter of fact, you know, prior to launching Clarity Ops, I spent a ton of time studying BCG, Deloitte, you know, McKinsey, the Big Four. And, I was perplexed, and, and I shouldn’t have been. And this I think this part has been my war with, going broad versus niching. And, I was like, “So, what do you do?” I thought, “So, what do you do, Deloitte? You, you know, you help with the economy? You know, you help solve global warming?” You know what I mean? To your point, really big. And so, I know that a board member of mine encouraged me. He just, and he’d said this over the years, “Garrett, just be careful to not try and boil the ocean.” That’s not where it’s at, you know. I thought that was really great advice, especially, you know, when I’ve always built digital products and services. I’ve never sold knowledge. You know. And that’s been a really interesting journey to define the knowledge solutions for your customers so that they’re tangible and they actually meet their real-life needs.

[15:57] – Challenges of Selling Operational Expertise

Yeah, I was going to ask, what’s been the biggest difference? Because I think a lot of people will resonate with what you just said. They come, you know, their backgrounds, even if they’ve been consulting for, for many years, they may not necessarily still feel that comfortable with selling, marketing, promoting. And my kind of, you know, hypothesis, or at least my observation around that, is because when you work inside of an organization, what you’re selling is usually the, you know, the product or the service of the company, but it’s all about the company, it’s not about you. And then when you start a business, the, if you, if it’s not a specific product, and oftentimes people just, like, they are the product, if they haven’t done any productization. So, the initial focus has to be on them, and that’s not something they’re very comfortable with, really putting in the spotlight. So, I’m wondering, as you made that shift into starting your consulting business, and really where, you know, the product is you, and I know you, you have a bit of a team now as well, but how did you think about that? Or what are the distinctions or differences that you saw between selling knowledge and expertise compared to selling, let’s say, a product of some sort?

Well, I think that the biggest distinction has been, understanding the problems and converting those into easy-to-understand solutions. And so like, my first, sorry, my third business, but this is before I, you know, started building, I sold swimming lessons at 25. And it was really simple: you, if you have a child that doesn’t know how to swim, we’ll teach them how. It’s really easy. My next business was we sold photography. It’s really easy to understand: you’re going to sell photos of people that hire you. Really straightforward. But when you sell a product to reorganize the organizational governance of a business, like, what on earth does that mean? You know what I mean? Or when you sell a product that guarantees we’re going to increase your gross margin, they understand that, but the how of it is extremely complex.

So, do you lead with the, when you’re describing what you do, or when you have messages on, let’s say, your website, LinkedIn profile, when you meet somebody at an event and they say, “Garrett, what do you do?” What do you lead with? Do you lead with, “Yeah, we help companies, yeah, you know, with, 50, you know, 50 million, in revenue or above, or 75 employees or above to improve their gross margins by X percent?” Is it that kind of message, or is it more about the process, inefficiency, waste? Like, how do you convey what you’re selling when what I’m hearing you say is that to a lot of people, what you do is, it’s a bit of magic? There’s, they’re not necessarily waking up every day going, “Oh yeah, I need to have my business processes re-reorganized.”

Yeah, because they don’t realize that that’s what’s required.

So, what, what’s the messaging? What do you, what do you lead with to get people’s attention then?

So, it varies. Like, it depends on the context. Like LinkedIn, it’s about the Hormozi value prop statement. You say, who the target is, what you’re going to give them, how it’s going to relieve their pain, and what their outcome will be, right? It’s kind of this one-sentence value prop structure. And then in person, if it’s a casual conversation, before I even say anything, I’ll say, “Tell me about the problems you’re facing.” Right? So, and so what I, what I’ve learned, oh if somebody comes through in our contact form, we take them straight to what we call a clarity quiz because they’ve already seen some of the big statements on our website. But, I really think the best pitch is a response to somebody who has communicated the problems they’re facing.

And how do you find the people who are communicating? Is this like they post on LinkedIn, or how do you actually find them?

[20:02] – Tailoring Sales Messaging to Client Language

Yeah, so, you’re basically asking about our, our lead gen strategy?

Well, you tell me. Is that, like, so you’re saying that you found the best way to respond is to kind of tap into or, or join the conversation that a potential buyer has started themselves? That’s what I heard you say. Maybe I misunderstood.

I think the best response is to respond to data received from the lead about their problems and their pain.

Got you. Okay, so you’re saying that this is based on the conversation that you have with them. Uh, you’re talking, they tell you there’s an issue, you’re listening to what that issue is, and then you frame your program, your solution based on the language that they’re using. So, if they’re talking about gross margin, you’re going to talk about margin. If they’re talking about processes or inefficiency, you might focus more of your message based on that. Is that accurate?

A little bit. You know, what I like to do, I like to pull threads because, I think, again, going back to my experience has been founders, CEOs, and C-suite, they have symptoms or signals of what they think the problem is, but usually they’re wrong. They’re not based on data, it’s based on feelings. And so, what I like to do is take a Socratic approach, pull threads, and start drilling in to get insights. So then I can say, “Okay, based on what I heard you say, here’s what I think your problem is. And here’s how I think we could solve it.” Like we do, a 60-second, sorry, 60-minute – just a 60-second, that’d be amazing, by the way.

It’s all, with AI, you know, just everything’s quick these days.

But typically, in 60 minutes, I can get a real good feel.

I know we can’t go into all the questions that you ask, but if you were toy- ou talk about kind of pulling threads, what are maybe one or two questions that you find that you’re, you ask consistently because they tend to elicit a really valuable or helpful or powerful reply that you can then use to identify those gaps and transition to talking about your solution?

[22:10] – Key Discovery Questions That Uncover Root Issues

Yeah. “Do you have variance in your product or service deliverables in terms of your turnaround time?”

Mm, great. Okay.

“Do you have variance in terms of the delivery of your products or service when it comes to quality?”

How often do people say to you, “Garrett, what do you mean by ‘variance’?” Like, do, is that, is that the term that they typically, like, they get right away, or do they need to know a little bit more about how does that apply? Because to me, like, I feel like I understand the, well, obviously I understand the meaning of the word “variance,” and I understand how that applies to, you know, is there consistency? Is there potential waste because things aren’t being done in the same way over and over? But is that, I just wonder, is that like a very technical term in the industries that you work, or?

I haven’t. I haven’t experienced it because it’s a synonym of inconsistency, variance, inconsistency. So, I haven’t experienced, my team may have, so I don’t want to answer on their behalf. But yeah, I haven’t personally. But, but, you know, even just listening to you say it, I think it’s worthy of considering, you know, because-

Well, no, but the reason I do like it, or at least from my perspective, and this is what I was wondering if this is why you do it, in many selling situations, the what- you know, that 60-minute conversation you have with buyers is, is one of the best ways that you can demonstrate your, your knowledge and expertise, and you can deliver real value to the buyer, right? And when you ask a buyer questions and they don’t have a good answer, or if you’re saying things in a way where it’s like, “Huh, like I haven’t really thought about it that way before,” that, that starts to open up gaps, I always find, in the buyer’s kind of confidence that, “Oh, maybe I don’t have all the answers,” or, “You’re asking about our variance. I have no idea. Like, I’m sure there is, but I don’t know what percentage our variance is right now.” Like, and it’s like, “Oh, okay, you’re right.” So, that whole process, I would imagine, would be very, very valuable, and that’s why I was wondering if you were using that kind of language there.

You’re, you’re coming from the other angle. Yeah, it, it seems to be, it’s a well-received question. Other questions we ask are, “Are your people confused?” And, “Is there infighting?” “You find that there’s, more, arguments and disagreements internally about who, what, where, why, when, then you prefer? Is it affecting your culture?” Some other questions are, “What’s your employment churn rate?” “What’s your CSAT?” “Do you measure CSAT?” “Do you measure the satisfaction of your customers?” And if they’re willing I always like to ask, “Are you satisfied with your gross profits, or do you have a hunch that maybe you’re bleeding profit and you don’t know where it’s coming from? Maybe you do.”

[24:51] – Qualifying Clients Before Offering Free Discovery Calls

And is this 60-minute conversation something that you’re doing complimentary, or is there a fee for it?

Complimentary. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, it’s, because I think it’s just, it’s the cost of doing business, is what I’ve determined. I don’t want to charge somebody, you know, to do an initial discovery call.

So, I think the pushback that some people might have, just been wondering about this, but I’m sure you have your reasons, is like, “Well, does it make sense to spend 60 minutes talking to somebody who may not be a buyer?” So, what does your qualification process look like? How do you decide whether it’s worthwhile for you to get on a 60-minute call with somebody?

Yeah, three things. The two criteria we opened up with, with the show, and the third is, “Have you decided that you need help?”

Mm. And how do you ask that? Is that, they have to fill in a form, they respond by email, initial call? How do you gather, because the first one, right, so it’s 15 million plus in revenue. Second one is 75 employees to, I think you said about 100 or so employees. And then, you said the third one, though, is, do they know that they need help or, you know, looking for that?

Yeah, I ask it frankly. We ask it frankly.

Before you get on the call with them, the 60 minutes?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Absolutely. So, recently, the most recent inquiry came in a few days ago. It was co-owners of a construction company in Arizona, and it was only one of the owners that reached out. And he took our clarity quiz. And, so he was definitely qualified. He needed help. But we wouldn’t move forward until his business partner also took the clarity quiz. And then, without him seeing it. And then I required that they compare notes and be united about their pain and the things they want to solve. You’re right. So, I just said, frankly, “We, we can’t go any further until you take this next step with your business partner who’s a co-owner.” So, I’m just frank about it, and I require my team to be frank about it too, because I’m a big fan of being straight up.

So, yeah, that’s great that you want- that your approach is to be straight up. Give me a little bit more insight into what’s going on in your mind, you know, in the early days of the business. I know you’re still relatively, you know, new in this business. But again, somebody from the other side, or a different, you know, vantage point might look at that and go, “Yeah, you know, but maybe I’ll lose that potential lead. And should I just get on a call with them?” I mean, you and I both know, right? That’s not the right way to do it. But I think so, just, what you are, what you’re doing right now, to me is, is the right way, because the other way, you end up maybe getting on a lot of calls with people only to find out that it doesn’t move forward because of all kinds of issues. But so, I guess my question to you, Garrett, is what makes you feel comfortable? And were you always comfortable with potentially halting the sales process until you got more alignment up front?

Yeah. Yeah, so, I think this just comes with being in the trenches, you know. Like, I’ve made that mistake so many times that I’ve just learned it’s not worth my pain or my time. And also, what ends up happening if, let’s say you engage, you end up spending an insurmountable amount of time just trying to break through mindset stuff. And you end up fighting things they should have already dealt with and concluded. For example, “I really need you. Like, I am determined to get the outcome that I want, irrespective of the amount of work I need to put in. And as long as it’s within my budget to get it done, I want to partner with you so that we have transformation and we prepare for scale and growth the right way.” If you’re not there, then my job could be futile. And now-so now does it—now it becomes this other layer of stress. And now, instead of, for me as a consultant, staying focused on solving your problem, I’m trying to be a therapist. And I risk a brand hit when we can’t accomplish solving your problems because you couldn’t get your mind there, and you hadn’t decided that you actually really want to solve your problems.

Mm, makes sense.

All those things, you know. And, I don’t want to do business that way.

How do you price your services? Can you know, with as much detail as you can share? You know, what does an average engagement look like, and how did you arrive at that kind of pricing spectrum, as well as how did you arrive at, the way that you structure or package the, your expertise and knowledge?

[29:38] – Consulting Pricing Models: DIY, Guided, and Revenue-Based

So, there’s a couple of, a few different, variables here. There’s purchase our tools as templates, and you DIY. And so, we’ll basically license our tools to you.

And what does that look like from a pricing perspective? If you can just kind of give rough numbers, like we’re talking like hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars?

Yeah, thousands of dollars. Yeah, it’d be in the 10+ thousand. And it’s also based on time as well. Then there’s “Done with You,” which tends to be the most common, just because we’re experts in our tools and we can get you there faster, with more accuracy.

That would be kind of level one, if you will, lowest priced, 10,000, give or take, is they get access to your tools. They don’t own the tools; they are essentially licensing them. So, are they paying an annual fee or just a one-time fee?

We have three, six, and 12 month.

Okay, got it. So, you have different lengths. They get access to it through, let’s say, a portal or something where everything is available to them. Okay. And so, that’s the “Done-or Do It Yourself”.

DIY. Yeah.

DIY, right. Okay, then you have “Done with You,” right? And so, that is, they’re still using that tool set, but this time you’re guiding them through the implementation, and you’re there to answer their questions as they work through it.

Yeah, we’re actually arm in arm.

What does that engagement look like in terms of length and starting price point?

Yeah. Yeah, so, within that pillar, again, typically, it’s 3, 6, 12 month. And then we also have like, you know, as consultants, we’d call it upsell/cross-sell, but we have, you know, for them it’s an add-on service where we have a maintenance program. And I added that as a side note because what I’ve realized is the law of entropy, even after you transform, the law of entropy is right there on their back, haunting them. And, you know, psychologically, people tend to revert, you know, because of gravity. Yeah. They revert to the old ways. So, we always recommend, some sort of, adopting one of our maintenance programs that will just hold, protect their investment. It’s an insurance program, basically.

Okay, I have some, some specific questions for you on this. And, everyone will know this is the style that I always like to ask. So, forgive me for being direct here, but the price structure of the “Done with You,” what’s the starting point on price for that?

It actually starts at five grand.

Okay. So, that would be like the three-month, five grand?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it’s like, you know, we’re talking about three hours a month.

Got you. Okay. And why would somebody select a 6-month or a 12-month if you also have the option for a 3-month? Meaning, like, what is the incentive or the reason that somebody might want to engage out of the, you know, the starting gate with a longer-term engagement?

Context could be, you know, limitations of procurement. Context could be bad timing, but at least we want to break ground. Context could be, “We just want to test. We’re unsure. We’re feeling a little gun-shy.” So, let’s just do, a, you know, low-level trial run. The pain isn’t so bad that we need to jump in right now. Context also sometimes with three months is, they need to ramp up resources, but they want to get some things going in prep for when those resources show up. So, there’s a whole host of different reasons.

So, but if I twist it to, or, like, look at it from the other side, because that’s what I’m actually really wondering, is why would somebody go for 6 or 12 months? Like, is it a pricing thing? For example, the longer the engagement, it’s cheaper, like on a, kind of monthly basis? Or, like, why would, why would people not—to me it seems like, “Yeah, okay, I’ll start with three months, see how it goes, then I’ll add from there.”

Maybe one good thing to clarify is a 3-, 6-, or 12-month engagement does not substantiate their time commitment on the weekly, on the monthly. So, you could do a three-month engagement doing 20 hours a month or 3 hours a month. You could do a six-month engagement 3 hours a month or 25 hours a month. So these are just commitment blocks, and then inside of those, those commitment blocks are micro-commitments based on the problems and the challenges that we want to transform.

Got you. And your pricing will change based on—so you have the time block, but then you also have the, let’s say, hour or commitment block within that. So, within six months, you’re going to have—so your pricing will change—you have multiple, potentially multiple price points within each of the 3, 6, 12?

[34:27] – Using Revenue Sharing to Incentivize Outcomes

That’s right. Yep, that’s right. Multiple, multiple. And that’s all based on the customization. And I was going to say too, there’s a third program, which is based on part program purchase and part revenue achievement. So, you know, sometimes, they might not have the budget, but we’ll do a pay-for-performance clause where, you know, we’re satisfied with, with the compensation up to a degree. But then, we’ll get a premium on a revenue target, which they have to pay more, but, you know, companies are willing to let go of a million bucks if we can recover 5 million in their gross profit.

So, they pay less upfront, like your retainer or initial investment that you’re receiving is lower, but you have the potential to earn more than if they paid everything?

Yeah. That’s right. And that just comes with our, you know, our confidence in being able to deliver the outcome.

What percentage of your engagements right now would be that performance, side?

Yeah, 10%.

Okay. Got you. You talk about the maintenance. I’m really interested, how do you price that? It sounds like you’re saying, “Hey, this is just like, this is your insurance policy. You, you really should have some form of ongoing support, commitment, focus on these key areas.” How do you price that? What does that typically look like?

[35:54] – Building a Team of Operational Specialists

Yeah, it’s typically based on an hourly rate. And it’s that hourly rate, goes across the humans from the team that participate. So, we have a junior, senior, and then executive.

Got you. Can you talk about your team for a moment? Because you started this, from my understanding, yourself. Today you do have a team. Can you just describe what that team looks like in terms of number of people and the roles that people play?

Yep. So, we have 15 people right now. That would be outside of me. Yeah, everybody is employed. And what I wanted to do was build experts in all of the functions and just functions. So, we have finance, customer support, IT, marketing, and operational business development. And, you know, and then we plug their expertise in based on the problems that come our way. And that’s really the idea is you have mechanics that are experts in, you know, the business engine, and we assign those mechanics and their expertise based on the problems we’re trying to solve.

How did you decide when to hire people? So, you started with just you. Now you’re at 15+. When did, like, what was your thought process or decision-making criteria? Was it, certain level of revenue, certain amount of money in the bank, certain number of clients, or something completely different? How did you decide when to actually, you know, make those hires?

Yep. Mostly, it’s based on demand, and the revenue supports the demand, and then it grows. And then in terms of hiring, you know, again, going back to, recruit is never a magic bullet, but it’s, you know, in part being in the network, meeting people, and then, good old-fashioned understanding the, the proper strategic elements of finding great people when you, when you go through the recruit.

Yeah.

By the way, Michael, one thing, a question I didn’t answer I wanted to make sure I did, is: are longer-term engagements less expensive? Yes. So, we give, you know, price, price breaks on longer term.

I mean, we see that as well. Like, I think, some people might look and go, “Well, yeah, just like the shorter engagement is always better.” And I think if I went back in time, you know, to my younger self, I probably would have viewed it that way too, that shorter is better, less commitment. As time has gone on and, you know, I’ve personally invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into working with my own coaches and mentors and something that my cousin, who’s my co-founder in Consulting Success, we’ve done many of this together. We’ve done some ourselves. But we always believe, like, we need to eat our own dog food, right? We run a coaching and training company for consultants; we need to also invest in our own coaching and training, otherwise it just, it wouldn’t make sense. And so early on, the shorter kind of mindset was, I think, much more common. As our business has grown, our team has grown, you know, we’ve learned and experienced more things, I view longer-term engagements as a secret weapon because when you commit to something longer term, you’re making a commitment to see it through. And I find early- you know, like more junior or more, I should say, novice or early-stage business owners have shorter-term mindsets. They’re expecting, you know, amazing success in a very quick, short period of time, whereas I think as you mature as a business owner, you recognize—and the sayings, of things like, you know, “Rome wasn’t built in a day,” or stuff—it’s like you, you go like, “Oh, yeah, of course it wasn’t.” Like, to build a really great business, you really want to give yourself more time, because it’s not always going to be up and to the right. Like, you’re going to have some wins, you’re going to have some losses, but as long as you’re really making progress towards your goal long term, it’ll be well worth it. So, I think that’s nice that you have that.

[40:03] – Why Long-Term Clients Create Stronger Partnerships

Really well said. There’s another benefit there. You know, it definitely is a secret weapon, but I found businesses that will commit to longer-term engagements are more secure, they’re better partners, they can afford more, they are great with accounts receivable. You know, they-in other words, they pay on time, you know. So, it’s kind of a twofer.

Yeah, it’s a good one.

Okay, so before we then wrap up, two questions for you. One, what has been the biggest challenge in this business that you’ve experienced so far? Again, you know, you’ve gone from just getting started to a solid, you know, business, 15 people. What’s been the biggest challenge that kind of comes to mind for you?

[40:50] – The Ongoing Challenge of Client Fit and Messaging

I’m surprised by this, actually. But still today is finding the right customers. Still like—still, I’ve just, like, if you could see in, in the office here, we got a couple of big giant whiteboards, still working through how to, articulate, with clarity-go figure-you know, the problems, the solutions, and how those are perceived by the businesses we want to work with, and being able to do that quickly, you know. That is still a challenge. It’s still a challenge. It’s always been a challenge in every one of my businesses, but this domain has been especially, interestingly challenging.

Mm. What would you say is the biggest lesson that you’ve learned?

Maybe it would be coined as a lesson; maybe it would be coined as a validation. So, I don’t know if we could use this synonymously. But my hypothesis going into Clarity Ops was that the majority of businesses operate in chaos. Their cultures pay a price, meaning their people live in that chaos, and they’re paid to live in that chaos, and they fall victim to the stat, which is nine out of ten businesses go out of business. And so my hypothesis was, I believe the reason typically is not product-market fit—although that’s probably definitely a portion—and typically not because they run out of money; it’s because they don’t understand the vitality of the operational engine, what Carnegie called “the engine of success.” Businesses tend to view a business as operations or culture. Everything’s operational. Everything in a business is made up of people, process, and performance. And this unified sort of dance of all of these moving parts—it’s all ops. And what I’ve been so pleased—I know it sounds a little morbid—pleased to find out is that so far, I’m 100% right.

Yeah.

It’s operational.

Right. Well, it makes—I mean, to me, it makes a lot of sense. I think, for those consultants who are joining us right now who are very early stage, I would suggest don’t worry about operations. Your focus shouldn’t be on operations yet. But for those who have established businesses, those who are growing, then operations is such a big piece of it because as the business grows, it’s like the engine is getting-almost needs to, not necessarily needs to get bigger, but there’s more complexity, there’s more to manage, right? You have to serve more clients or bigger projects or bigger expectations. All of that requires really good systems. And I think that’s where, you know, you often hear people talking about like the 1, 3, 10, and so forth, right? Like you get to these different levels of revenue, you start to break certain processes or things that used to work, don’t work anymore. So I think the work that you’re doing will always have a place because there’s always going to be operations that are not running as smoothly as they should be.

[44:26] – Operations as the Foundation for Sustainable Scale

Sure. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, a mentor of mine said once to me that I will never forget, “You can only build as high as you dig deep.” And he brought me to this actual plot of land in Seattle, and he showed me where they were building a skyscraper. And I actually have a photo. Maybe I’ll send it to you, Michael. And the photo is a 13-story hole where they are building infrastructure, rebar, steel to withstand the weight and the pressure of the 150 stories they’re going to build up. And I just think it’s such a great portrait for any business that actually wants to win. Most businesses don’t go in going, “I’ll be happy with, you know, making 500 grand.” I don’t think they do. Maybe they do. Or, “I’ll be happy with making 250 grand,” or “I’ll be happy with making $5 million.” Usually people, like most entrepreneurs, they want to win. They want to build a great business, you know? And I would contend it’s all about the foundation. And in there is that operating room, you know, that engine.

Definitely. Well, I will say, Garrett, and many of our listeners and viewers will already know this, but at Consulting Success, our kind of premier coaching program is called the Clarity Coaching Program. And so your company name being called Clarity Ops, I think we’re both aligned and believers in the importance of achieving clarity and how beneficial it can be for business. But I want to thank you for coming on. I know there’s much more that we could talk about, but let’s make sure that people can learn more about you and about your company. So where’s the best place for them to go?

[46:18] – Where to Learn More About Clarity Ops

I think the best place is the website: clarityops.co. If you go to .com, you’ll end up somewhere else. Dot com was way too expensive.

There you go. We’ll link that up in the show notes. So yeah, clarityops.co. We’ll link that up in the show notes. And Garrett, thanks again so much for coming on.

Yeah, thank you so much, Michael. Really great chatting.

Important Links:

Garrett Delph
Clarity Ops Website
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